The simplest and most consistent answer is that God was where he always is, in the imagination. This simple answer allows you to come to terms with evil quite easily, it is just one of those things. There is no force for evil any more than there is a force for speed, or green or Tuesday afternoons. Evil is just a way of looking at reality. Bad things happen, some people cause many bad things to happen but hardly ever because they simply want to be bad. Evil cannot be prevented by mumbling to an empty patch of sky, it requires action. It requires us to understand why people do these things, not so that we can forgive them or excuse them but so we can prevent them. Nothing good will ever come from believing that bad things happen simply because some people are bad, that offers no solution, not even the beginning of one. We need to understand why men act in these ways, to understand the rational reasons why they take those actions. Nothing will ever be understood if it is labelled as irrational, inhuman or beyond our capacity to understand. Evil actions are rational to some people, if we understand their mentality we have a chance of preventing them acting that way. Calling them evil and praying that they don't do what they want to do are very poor preventative strategies: strategies that have been proven useless for thousands of years. People have been praying that earthquakes, floods, murders, rapes, plagues and the timely or untimely deaths of monarchs do not happen for thousands of years, normality continues unabated. The rate of spontaneous cures at Lourdes is average for any tourist attraction, you would do as well going to Blackpool. Prayer fails to outperform a placebo for the very simple reason that there is no God. Martin
Don't ever tell anybody to watch fiction to learn about reality. Paedophilia is not the work of the devil, it is a warping of sexual desire. It is thoroughly repellent and should not be condoned but it *must* be understood. We owe it to our children. Only by detecting potential paedophile abusers before they commit a serious offence can we do anything to prevent the problem. This requires understanding. Thinking that evil thoughts are put into minds by the devil is no help to anybody. Every action a person takes is rational to that person, at least it is rationalized after the fact. By understanding these thoughts and rationalizations we stand a chance of doing something about them. Without this understanding we can do nothing but wring our hands and wail at the impotence of man and God. Understanding is not condoning, we need to understand paedophilia for exactly the same reason we have studied and understood smallpox and cholera. Or would you still have us merely praying to God to cure such diseases? I cannot see a time coming when paedophile killers are not operating, but I can foresee a time when many are detected and treated before they commit a serious offence. Pre-punishment is nonsensical, but preventive action is a moral imperative. Martin
Great post. Sexual offences against children need to be understood. We can't think with gut instinct. The extreme liberal view and the extreme hang 'em and flog 'em view are both simplistic. If we know why these people commit such offences we may be able to prevent some of the offences. If we just say they are evil men and the devil makes them do it we cannot predict who he will make do it next time. For the sake of my eleven year old daughter I hope a lot more people listen to the even-handed and open minded attitudes of men like James Arnold rather than to lynch-mobs, hand-wringing bed-wetters or Jesus freaks. We need to understand the problems, not forgive the sinners, the victims of society or just string up the "beasts". We need to understand the complex motivations of these people and come up with workable strategies to go as far as possible to eliminate this problem while remaining as a society tolerant and liberal. We need to be at once harder and smarter. Not locking them away and throwing away the key, not just asking them politely to desist nor praying for their souls. Firm and effective strategies are required. Psychology and sociology are far more effective tools for developing a solution than theology.
Weird. The date is the date as accepted by the majority of people you speak to. None of the characters of your bible would recognize the dates we use now, they used the calendar of their era. As soon as there was a church around to call the date the idea that new stuff could be added to the bible became dangerous. The church declared a new calendar and declared divine inspiration in the written word over and done with. I use the Global Era dating system http://www.go2zero.com/ which does not mark the anniversary of the birth of a mythical figure. (Mythical in the sense of Robin Hood, King Arthur, etc., probably based on a real person, but nobody can be sure where history finishes and myth begins). It is simply based on a commonly accepted reference point, after all, we all know where we were on the "turn of the millennium". Faith is believing in something whatever the evidence, despite the evidence or despite the fact that you know it isn't true. In a sense you are right to say we all have some, but many of us regard it as the nearest thing you can get to a sin. I am not at all surprised that you attribute everything good thing you ever do and every good aspect of your character to your faith. That is how it works, that is how it has its hold on you. Every sunrise, goosebump, moment of personal achievement, orgasm and birdsong is due to God and your faith in him. For believers pleasure without praising God is meaningless. Your road to happiness is a toll road with an imaginary tollgate keeper taking a cut of every pleasure you have. For the believer faith is more important than anything else in your life, than your life, than any life. How could you possibly doubt your faith? 70 generations have committed their lives to it, you have committed your life to it. It is your life, it is more than your life. How could you possibly turn your back on that? So you banish those doubts and praise yourself for doing it, and thank God for allowing you to have this wonderful gift of faith. Thank you for pointing out my denial of my true Christian, religious and spiritual nature. Most Christian of you to be so understanding. I am sorry to disillusion you but deep down inside me I am not you. I'm sorry if this makes your worldview a little more complicated. I am no more a closet Christian than a woman or a goldfish is a man in denial. Deep down inside me I am an atheist, and have been all my life, notwithstanding a brief time during which I became a member of the Church of England. I have never seriously believed in God and I have never thought that believing something against the evidence was anything other than a form of lying to myself, and as such a sin. I have plenty of values, I would guess I share the vast majority of them with you, except for faith, which I see as the greatest potential force for evil in the world today. People can be good without faith. People can be evil with or without faith, but only faith can enable a good hearted and morally upstanding person to knowingly behave in a thoroughly evil way.
If you mean by "historian" somebody who earns his living by studying and writing history then no, I am not. Although I did study history at university. If you admonish me for making the claim that "Robin Hood and Arthur being as historically probable as Christ" I can only hope that you are not involved in history, as you have seriously twisted my words that were right there in front of you. I said that Jesus Christ is a mythical person *in the same sense* as Robin Hood and King Arthur. By that I mean I am quite happy to accept that all three men probably existed but I am also very clear that the vast majority of stuff that has been written about them was made up, elaborated, spun and twisted in order to make a better story and that it is now quite impossible to disentangle this myth and get down to anything concrete that we can be sure of without making a call to faith, which allows a person to believe anything, including logical absurdities. By the way I have had Christians telling me that there is more evidence to support the historical Jesus than of any person before the twentieth century (sic), which only goes to show the power of faith to cloud the mind. They can seriously believe, hell, seriously have Faith, that we know more about Jesus than we do about Queen Victoria, Napoleon and Abraham Lincoln? Some people will believe anything. There are no contemporaneous accounts of the life of Jesus, none whatsoever. All accounts are written later, at least a generation later. Doesn't it strike you as odd that not a single Roman account of a major threat to their power in Jerusalem was written down? It would be as fishy as finding that not a single written word existed about Elvis Presley and then a book be published this year detailing his assassination in Dallas by a lone gunman in Heartbreak Hotel because Castro didn't like his song "I have a Dream". Then another few years later we get the second gospel adding its account of the second gunman, Jack Harvey Ruby, the Duke of Earl, standing on the grassy knoll outside the Dakota building with his fourscore magnificat asking The King if he felt lucky. Martin J Willett www.mwillett.org |
AtheismPoliticsLifeFeedbackForumBlogHome
Evil and The Satan HypothesisPaedophilia is Not a CrimeReligious indoctrination is child abuseWill Momma be Blonde in Heaven?MasturbationTeenage SexWho Cares What Jesus Would Do?Theocracy? No ThanksAtheism and MarriageWhy I am an AtheistWhy We are AtheistsDo You Want to Buy My Soul?The Power of FaithFaith, Hope and BeliefThe Leap of FaithWhat the Bible Says About AbortionAborting BabiesAtheist Hell
Evil and The Satan HypothesisPaedophilia is Not a CrimeReligious indoctrination is child abuse
|
Tweet |
© 1999 - 2011 by Martin Willett. |
mwillett.org: Debate Unlimited |