A correspondence with a rather cocky sounding Christian responding to my claim that there are no famous atheists who converted to Christianity, just people who became famous by describing their Christianity and saying they used to be atheists.
C S Lewis is not a famous atheist, he was a famous Christian who said he was an atheist. Can you list three books written by C S Lewis the famous atheist that were not in fact written by Lewis the Christian? Can you show me any record of C S Lewis being famous and an atheist, at the same time? You were an atheist. A unfamous atheist. There's lots of them about, as I wrote. There are no famous atheists who are now Christians. You say you used to be an atheist and now you don't believe in evolution. Can you describe evolution in a way which will demonstrate that you understand it? Kent Hovind is a joke and so is his spurious reward. I do not know any atheists who support the strawman argument that Hovind challenges “evolutionists” to prove. Enter the name “Professor Louis Bounoure” in Google and what do we find? Exactly what I'd expect to find, nothing but creation-evolution debate quotes. Famous scientist is he? What does he do, apart from supply quotes? [actually this is wrong, he supplied just the one quote]
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Pier/1766/hovindlies/P.html Par for the course. Creationists trade these names of “heretical scientists” like they were precious relics. Martin Willett http://mwillett.org/ Authority:Have you found out anything about the great Professor Louis Bounoure yet? Anything else you'd like to quote from such an eminent man? Old out of context quotations from French Scientists Anytime you want a debate you know where to come, but you'll have to do a lot better than the spewings of Dr Dino and the old closed mind barb Martin Willett
That Newton chappie didn't believe in relativity you know. The argument from authority is poor logic, non-scientific and a poor debating tactic. If I was to give a list of scientists who are atheists and believers in evolution I could probably exceed your mailbox limits with a single message. Most of the scientists who have ever lived are still alive, and most them believe in evolution. It is only through evolution that biology makes sense, evolution is the logic that allows biology to be understood rather than just catalogued. Reading between the lines of your original message you seem to be a person who has had some problems. You now associate all those problems with “rejecting God” and now project that on to everybody else. I do have a partially open mind. There are things I will not let in. I will not surrender logic to faith. I will not “experiment” with addictive drugs or dangerous lifestyles. I do not value the open mind as the ultimate Good Thing. I trust my ego. I hope your lifestyle comes together, Martin Willett For evidence of just how many scientists believe in evolution visit Project Steve a list of scientists with doctorates in scientific subjects who believe in evolution, hundreds and hundreds of 'em, all named Steve. For every so called scientist a creationist can produce to question evolution we can produce a scientist who agrees with evolution, called Steve. Actually the list of Steves is bigger than any list of "creation scientists". Of course there's also many hundreds of thousands more who aren't called Steve. C.S. bloody Lewis already
How illogical! It doesn't follow at all, that's why I have never made such a claim. I made a statement. It is up to opponents to provide a counter-example. It is the Christians who like to make out that atheists regularly convert to become Christians. My assertion is that these are poor atheists. Your father used to be an atheist, my brother-in-law used to be one too. But I never remember him putting across very much of a case and being very impressive about his atheism. There is no obvious example of anybody who became famous for being an atheist who later became a Christian. The world is full of unimpressive and unfamous people who have had conversions of one sort or another. But where are the famous ex-atheists who were famous before they converted? Martin Willett http://mwillett.org/
Where is this evidence of C.S. Lewis being an atheist? Show me. Show me something that Lewis wrote about his atheism in the present tense. Show me some writings in which he espouses atheism, show me some writing in which he agrees with an atheist or defeats a Christian in debate. There is plenty of evidence in his writing as a Christian that he claimed to have been an atheist, and a rather silly one at that. There is no evidence anywhere that I am aware of that shows C.S. Lewis was ever a respected and well-known and influential atheist philosopher or writer. His specialism was Medieval and Renaissance Literature, a subject that brought him into contact with J.R.R. Tolkien but did not give him any great insights into the way the universe actually works. My Oxford Dictionary of Quotations offers nothing from Lewis dated before 1942. As an atheist he was a nobody, he left no legacy of atheism except in his Christian writings in which his former atheist self is a handy strawman. Nobody ever became an atheist from reading Lewis, except perhaps in frustration with his transparent allegories in the Narnia series. Where are the impressive atheists who became famous as cogent atheists who later became Christians? Where are they? I'm fed up with these people who are called ex-atheists who are nothing more than nobodies who become somebody by declaring themselves converted and who can barely defeat their own former selves in debates. C.S. Lewis, Josh McDowell and Lee Strobel can't furnish one atheist book between themselves. Martin Willett http://mwillett.org/
Where is this idea that you have to be famous to be committed come from? I know of many atheists, dozens, who are committed and, what is far more important, coherent, in their atheist views. None of them have remotely begun to “accept Jesus as their saviour”. It does not happen. I have no experience at all of people with profound and coherent atheist views ever becoming Christians. However, there is a small group of people who emerge from obscurity to claim to be Christians who used to be atheists. Where is the evidence? Some of their Christian friends say “oh yes, he was the quite the atheist you know, but now he's totally different.” I'm sorry but that might do for one or two conversions, but my point is that seems to be the case for all these “ex-atheists”. That is what stinks. My brother-in-law is an excellent example. I have had hundreds of deep and meaningful conversations with him. But not one about his atheism, he said he was an atheist but he never debated the subject with me and never made out a case for atheism. Now he goes to church and seems to be a Christian. Was he ever an atheist with a coherent view? I can't say. I can confirm he used to identify himself as an atheist and that is exactly how far I can go, and it's really lame. If somebody wants evidence that I have been an atheist I can provide plenty. But many of these ex-atheists, despite being professional writers, can provide nothing that shows them to have ever been atheists. Not one published word by C.S. Lewis is a defence of atheism. The proof of their atheism seems to consist entirely of hearsay accounts of recollections of conversations by Christians and their own testimony. Being famous as an atheist would be proof that Lewis was an atheist. He was an obscure academic and sci fi novelist not famous for anything before he became a Christian apologist trumpeting his former atheism. This seems to be the case for all of his ilk. They go from unfamous to famous by public conversion. It seems to be a very Christian way of acting. Who would ever have heard of Saul? There are no counter-examples. No famous ex-atheists who can clearly demonstrate systematic atheist views defended or propounded with vigour before the day of their (career enhancing) conversion. Where are C.S. Lewis's, Lee Strobel's and Josh McDowell's atheist friends? Ex-atheists emerge from nowhere claiming to have had beliefs that they no longer have, beliefs they can provide no evidence for, beliefs that make their writing marketable. Martin Willett http://mwillett.org/ |
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