It is really more accurate to say that I "realized I didn't believe" as opposed to "stopped believing". Growing up, I didn't really think about it. I went to church because that's just what my family did on Sunday. Interestingly enough, I received the "Faith in God" award when I was about 11-years-old (there's a chance I was 12, but it was about that age)... but I don't remember putting any honest thought into it. Memorizing the Articles of Faith and performing the other tasks were no different, to me, than doing school work.

I stopped going to church when I was about 16-years-old... not much longer after being ordained as a priest and blessing/preparing the Sacrament in front of the congregation. I suppose it was a combination of the fact that I was a teenager that found church boring and I felt really uncomfortable going. It was about then that I realized that I really didn't have a testimony and, as such, I felt like I was being dishonest when I said the prayers for the Sacrament.

My parents weren't upset that I didn't want to attend church anymore, at least not until I'd "figured it out". Fortunately they didn't force it down my throat, they encouraged me to be open-minded and skeptical. When I started doing my homework, I became... "addicted" is much to strong a word... but I spent most of my free time studying the Bible, the Book of Mormon, the writings of Mormon presidents current and past, and other bits of church history and information. I figured, if it was true, it's pretty damn important, so I better do my homework.

I made it through the Book of Mormon, KJV, and NIV before I was eighteen... something I can confidently say is an incredible rarity amongst teenagers; I was pretty proud of myself. :)

Eventually, it was clear to me that those books were written for the time by people of the time and had no bearing on reality. I just can't believe that a being with such incomprehensible power ("willing" things into existence) would be guilty of the same petty, selfish, murderous, jealous (the list goes on) behavior that is so clearly rampant in the human race. It is obvious to me that the opposite of "God created man in his own image" was the truth. This realization wasn't easy, though... there was a bit of time in which I was terrified.

I was so afraid that I was making a mistake. "What if I'm wrong," I thought. I was taught that Satan was a deceiver and his deceitfulness was often very attractive. I figured there was a possibility that I was being sucked into something that "made more sense" and was making a mistake that would cost me eternal life. After much thought, I came to the conclusion that I couldn't acknowledge belief in a creator that would be upset with it's creation for doing exactly what it was created to do. More specifically, it sounded stupid to think that humans would be punished for using the intellect that we had. "If God created me with this brain, why would he punish me for using it," is about how it wound up. The other half of the reasons behind this line of thought is the science behind the concept of "God": there isn't any.

There is not a single shred of evidence for the existence of anything even close to the god of the Bible. It HAS to be taken on faith. Even LDS leaders don't deny this. A few years ago I attended the LDS General Conference (I thought it would be interesting). I didn't go hoping for some laughs or anything like that, I just went to listen. The building was impressive, but it just felt like going to church with several thousand people. Anyway... even Gordon B. Hinckley (whom spoke at the conference) stressed the importance of faith. One can't believe without it. I suppose my brain just doesn't work that way... hence my lack of religious faith.

A few more points, then I'll get to the next question. Many other things can be attributed to my lack of belief. Take the Muslim jihadist, for example. Now THERE is a show of faith! They're willing to blow themselves up for their beliefs! Of course it can be argued quite convincingly that a religion like the LDS is far superior, but the obvious can't be ignored: there are thousands of religions and many different gods. A Mormon and I would probably agree that those kinds of actions (suicide bombings, etc) are incredibly reprehensible, but that doesn't matter in the world of the suicide bomber. They think WE are the bad guys and that they're scoring points with god by sending their fellow believers into crowds with bombs around their waists.

The way I see it, there either isn't a god, or if there is... he's apathetic or indifferent. If I present the "apathetic and indifferent" opinion, all one has to do is add to it the lack of evidence and it winds up being on par with there not being a god at all. "The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." --Delos B. McKown

Clearly, we're on our own.

I imagine it will be something like it was before I was born: nothing. From a biological standpoint, there's no evidence to suggest our consciousness continues beyond death... and I can't really think of a good reason to believe that it does. That doesn't bother me, though... because if you cease to exist, you're unable to think, so you won't know you're dead. In other words, you'll get over it. :) "Near-death experiences" don't prove anything and in no way suggest that consciousness survives physical death. I add this to the list of "things that people think are true because people WANT them to be true".

I don't really like the use of the word "created" here... but anyway... I really haven't looked into the Big Bang theory enough to say that I acknowledge it, but there is a lot of evidence that points in that direction. I don't want to clutter up this response by copying and pasting, so here's a link: The Big Bang -- have you ever seen that much hard study and research into religious claims? Probably not... because it can't be done.

Anyway, personally... I don't know. I certainly don't think that some mysterious being just said, "Let there be..." and *poof* there it was. Creation myths have been around for as long as humans have been around. When the original Biblical texts were written, clearly they didn't have a clue. Perhaps we'll know someday, but until we do for sure, I trust science to eventually give us these answers; they definitely won't come from the pulpit. The beautiful thing about science is... attempts at proving theories wrong is very much encouraged and is usually incredibly helpful and educational.

A big difference between someone like myself and your typical believer is... I'm totally fine not having all the answers and the ones that only religion can provide don't do anything for me. "Why do we exist" or "What is the meaning of life" and "What is the purpose of life" are questions that man loves to ask, no doubt, but I think they just confuse us more than not.

I say things like that, as well as variations. They're just popular, colloquial expressions. I wouldn't swear around people that I know might be bothered by it, and I usually don't anyway unless I know the person well... but that is really beside the point.

As I mentioned, it was -- as you put it -- "God and religion as a whole". The Mormon religion, in particular, doesn't exactly have the brightest history... but I don't like to be guilty of judging a book by its cover. Quite a few of the writings and teachings of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young are definitely questionable (and some downright despicable), and while that doesn't exactly help an organization's credibility, it is mostly the whole concept of "God" that is ridiculous to me.

I look forward to it. Also, if you'd like clarification on anything I've said, don't hesitate to ask.

One last bit, before I send this... though I do not believe in any gods or "life after death", that doesn't make life any less amazing to me. It truly is a "miracle" (in a non-religious context, of course). The whole human experience, while it can be very violent and ugly sometimes, is a very interesting and amazing phenomenon. Something as simple as you and I having this conversation... it is amazing, isn't it? It's almost as if the universe is alive. We are, after all, a part of it.

I still look up at the stars and wonder, somtimes.

According to the scriptures, yes.

http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/short.html

The above link provides some examples of what I'm referring to. Also, there are a lot of references to the god of the Old Testament being jealous:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=jealous+god&t=KJV

Even the first three of the Ten Commandments show God's jealous, and admitted in the third: "I the Lord your God am a jealous God" (Deuteronomy 5:9). None of those things surprise me, and none of those things make me angry at something I don't believe in, they're just many things that make it obvious to me that (as I mentioned in my first message) man created gods, not the other way around.

Interesting, perhaps... but (stealing part of a quote from the late, great Douglas Adams) after using the brain that God gave me to determine that God doesn't exist, "God vanished in a puff of logic." This is hand-in-hand with the many different things that led me to the realization that I didn't and couldn't believe in a god.

Faith is "accepting something as true" and is used in different ways. Do I have "faith" that I will see the sun tomorrow? Sure... but that "faith" is based on centuries of research and study into the way our solar system works; there is no reason to believe that Earth will stop spinning. Obviously there might be clouds/rain, but you know what I mean.

In the case of "faith in God" -- it really is "just believing it". The many reasons why the existence of God™ makes no sense are just too numerous to ignore, but most believers do. I remember asking my bishop why things like the situation of mass starvation, disease, and death in Africa happen. His first answer was, "I don't know." He then continued to explain that God gave us free will and we're left to our own devices... so situations like that are a result of our decisions as a species. Totally honest answer from him, and to his credit, a good one... but he's also the same guy that would teach people how God will bless you for being faithful and "virtuous". The problem is, one can be successful and happy by your own merits and hard work -- in fact, I am, and I'm a non-believer, so I don't understand why believers give their god the credit. Maybe it's just me, but if there was a god and he offered to make me rich (or just "have enough") or keep me upright and keep my family happy ("blessed") by being a good person and believing, I'd ask him why he hasn't done anything about children like the ones I linked (image) in my last message to you.

Would you say that Bill Gates is successful? Not just financially (obviously he's very wealthy) but his wife is a wonderful woman and he's got a happy family. I'd call that success... but did you know that Bill Gates is a non-believer? I'm not sure that he's ever used the word "atheist", but if you research interviews with him, he acknowledges the "lack of evidence" for a god and, for the most part, admits disbelief and uncertainty.

I have heard from some believers that their god (in the case of starving children in Africa) "acts through humans" to help them -- that doesn't make any sense at all, especially when most Christians feel they have a personal relationship with their god and that he, personally, helps them out with all kinds of tedious crap. Some argue that it is "just believing" that helps people. A psychological effect. Then they're just admitting that they're not capable of being happy or successful on their own. Some people honestly think that smoking marijuana (or doing other drugs) or drinking alcohol helps them, too.

"The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one." - George Bernard Shaw

In other words, so what? But, being honest: Yes, I think the beliefs are silly, but I have absolutely no problem with people that have personal beliefs in "the divine" or God™. Mostly, I don't care. However, it DOES concern me with a person's beliefs start to negatively impact another person's life (or many lives).

If the god of the Old Testament exists, he must be more powerful than we can understand because he "willed" everything into existence, making things from nothing. That sounds like some pretty serious power to me. Right? This god is also said to have destroyed cities and civilizations (Sodom & Gomorrah, the flood, for example), demanded sacrifices (of humans and animals), and many other things can be said of his behavior and demands. Now, if you compare the stores in the Old Testament to today, no doubt that you have a lot of believers (Shirley Phelps, for example) that believe this god is still wreaking his wrath upon the Earth. Phelps said that Hurricane Katrina was God's wrath against homosexuality and other perversions. There are many that believe things like hurricanes and other natural and/or man-made disasters are "God's will" or wrath.

Sheer stupidity, in my opinion. Hurricanes are a completely natural (and expected) phenomenon. The only reason that area of the Southern US was affected so much is... they're at or below sea level and right next to... the sea. What do people expect?

There are many people who honestly believe that their god was involved with the safe landing of the airplane in the Hudson River. Harmless belief? Sure, but incredibly frustrating. Where was God on 9/11/01? Is the Christian god the wrong one? Maybe the hijackers *are* getting their reward of wealth and virgins? Or maybe God really did want the people on the plane that safely crash-landed in the Hudson to survive but wanted nearly 3,000 people to be murdered on that horrible day in 2001. All part of "God's plan" (whatever that is) and "he works in mysterious ways".

Or... there isn't a god and "mysterious ways" and/or "plans we can't/don't understand" are just necessary cop-outs from believers attempting to avoid confusion.

Yes, our brains are very complex... but have you ever been, say, knocked out cold due to a blow to the head? I'd be willing to bet that, while your brain was suffering and trying to recover from that kind of trauma, you weren't very active and chatty. Or what happens to someone with Parkinson's Disease? Involuntary movement. Tourette's? Inability to completely control what you say (and sometimes Tourette's can have physical symptoms). I don't really feel like going on with a long list of examples... and I'm sure you understand my point so far... but it is really hard to swallow the idea that you somehow keep existing (other than your body, which decomposes) when you're dead. This is in the list of things that there aren't any evidence for and, to me anyways, no good reason to believe. It doesn't bother me, though.

It shouldn't be hard for to wrap your mind around it, though. Just think about what things were like (for you) before you were born. :) I was just teasing. "No longer existing" is a very difficult thing to wrap your mind around. Impossible, in fact... because if you don't exist, you can't "know that you don't exist" and there is no longer a "you". All we know is what it is like to be alive. "We can't know death until we're dead" is an accurate statement, but even then, we cannot know it because the thing that helps us "know" isn't functioning anymore. It is quite mind boggling.

Honestly, I focus on life... I don't waste any time worrying about death.

I understand why you feel this way. Life is truly amazing and yes, very complex. But is "creator" an intellectually honest answer? If we're so complex that one feels we must have been created/designed purposely, the creator must be equally or much, much more complex than we are. So who created the creator? And the creator's creator's creator? And the creator's creator's creator's creator? Ad infinitum. I prefer to start with "we don't really know" and move from that to "we're looking into it" and I have a tendency to believe that the answers aren't going to come from the Bible or a preacher, but that they'll come from scientists who can actually try and test theories. "God did it" doesn't answer or explain anything and it certainly isn't anything that can be tested.

Evolution, for example, shows us that the Biblical story of the creation of life is not true. Evolution was a theory devised after much study and research and, since, has been supported by mountains of evidence gathered through years of hard scientific investigation. To the person who doesn't believe in evolution, I ask: where is your research and evidence for "God did it"?

Also, regarding the first sentence of the above paragraph, if you can't trust the "Word of God" to explain where we came from (which is the very first story at the beginning of the book, no less), what else shouldn't be trusted about it? A lot, a rational person should think.

Yes. And not just those two, but many other Mormon "prophets" and figureheads:

"Cain slew his brother... and the Lord put a mark upon him, which is the flat nose and black skin..." -- Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 7, p. 290-291)

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." -- Brigham Young (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 10, p. 110)

NOTE: I know black Mormons and I know white Mormons that are married to black people. According to Brigham Young, they should die; he said it would always be that way. He was wrong, obviously... so there's a "prophet of God" who was wrong. He's one of many, though.

"Negroes in this life are denied the priesthood; under no circumstances can they hold this delegation of authority from the Almighty. The gospel message of salvation is not carried affirmatively to them... negroes are not equal with other races where the receipt of certain spiritual blessings are concerned." -- Bruce R. McConkie ("Mormon Doctrine", 1958, p. 477)

"Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race." -- Joseph Fielding Smith ("The Way to Perfection", 1931, p. 101)

"There is a reason why once man is born black and with other disadvantages, while another is born white with great advantages. The reason is that we once had an estate before we came here, and were obedient; more or less, to the laws that were given us there." -- Joseph Fielding Smith ("Doctines of Salvation" Vol. 1, p. 61)

All of the above statements are just about race (obviously)... and only a few examples (there are many).

I see those things as evidence that the men were racist under the guise of their religion. But racist is racist, regardless of the reasons. Of course many Americans were racists and/or slave owners during those times, so it doesn't surprise me that these men were, but this is why it is clear to me that they, like those responsible for biblical writings, were just "in the times" (regarding the state of religion). It seems, though, that the Mormon god seemingly changed his mind and decided that it was okay for blacks to get the priesthood in 1978.

Obviously I don't think "God changed his mind", I think that the Mormon church changed its stance. They waited an awfully long time, though... but I'm sure that political pressure got to them, and/or they just realized that they needed to stop discriminating because its wrong. This isn't the first time they've changed their stance, though. There was a point that they taught suicide to be an unforgivable sin. I think they'll someday accept gay marriage, too (which is interesting because the "Word of God" says it is an abomination; Leviticus 18:22, 20:13, and several other books), but I doubt you will ever see gay marriages in Mormon temples.

Were those things (and others) eye-openers to me? Yes, because it showed me that these weren't "men who spoke with God", but that they were just men. Did these kinds of things affect my opinion of Mormons or the current Mormon church, as a whole? Well, it is interesting to me that all of those things are just kind of brushed under the carpet by Mormons today and don't seem to have any impact on their faith (for the most part) but honestly, I have Mormon friends that are good people and I respect many current Mormon values and priciples. Having friends that I respect and appreciating some of the church's teachings is all really beside the point, though. I saw those things to be nothing more than the works and words of wacky religious men.

Compared to the history of other religions, the Mormons really are -- humor intended -- saints.

However unlikely and however tiny the odds, I suppose it is possible. I'd like to think that there is more life in this universe than just our planet, but I think we have a long ways to go (scientifically and technologically) before we'll ever find out.