...By the way, I wish you guys were local so I could call and talk to you in person about my recent decision to join the Church.

It was something I decided to do on my own and I'm very happy about it. Believe it or not, after two months of studying as a Catachumen, I'm going to be baptized on Saturday, Dec. 23. I still plan to continue my Jewish observances (fasting for Yom Kippur, leading Passover seder, Hannukah, etc.) but I wanted to expand my religious/spiritual experience beyond just passively listening in when I took my family to Church (been doing that regularly for over 10 years now). Patti's older brother Tim and my friend Maria have agreed to be my two sponsors.

Keep in touch and I'd be happy to "chat" about this further if you'd like.

Love, Frank

Yeah, I'd like to chat about your recent decision.

Are you doing it because it confirms your beliefs or because you feel you will fit in better with Patti and the kids (or something else)? My beliefs are best described as Rationalist. I demand a rational explanation for everything. I have yet to hear a convincing rational explanation for any religion. Faith is not rational. Faith is a gimmick used by certain ideas to help convince believers of their truth without allowing them to question the belief. This improves the chances that the particular belief will survive and spread.

The best argument I can come up with for religion is that the "better" ones remind us of the rules that will best improve the quality of life. Religions did not invent these rules. Popular religions survive because they incorporate the rules into their belief system. Also, it is a relatively recent mutation of popular religions to stress these rules. This mutation was necessary to keep the more rational followers in the fold. Over much of history they stressed more negative ideas (such as "distrust anyone who believes something different").

In any event, I wish you the best, and hope your decision will improve the quality of your life. Improving the quality of your life IS a rational activity. Activities that improve the quality of your life AND the overall quality of others (over the long term) are even more rational.

Sorry if this was not the big boost of encouragement you were hoping for, but you wanted to chat....

Happy Winter Solstice (In primitive societies it was somewhat rational to celebrate the darkest time of year with candles and lights--since you needed them anyway. It was also somewhat rational to gorge yourself with rich foods--nuts and meats were pretty much the only foods available--because hoarding them for use this time of year will increase your chances of surviving the leanest part of the year. Since these needs are now met by civilized society, nowadays it is popular as a time put aside to share our good fortune with others.)

Mark

PS. - Rebuttals welcome. This is my favorite subject to argue about.

Read Marks letter. I agree with his thoughts. He has my basic philosophy or I his. I have a few questions as to how far you intend to go. Will you now wear a cross around your neck? Will you say catholic when asked for your religion? And will you be buried with a cross over your head? Needless to say I am somewhat disappointed in your decision to go this far. Going to church was more than adequate. I dont think you would have had any problem with your kids. They will always love you no matter what, just like I will always love you and your siblings no matter what. By being baptized you are renouncing your Jewish heritage, even though you may pay homage to our holidays. I am somewhat hurt and feel that I failed in not being Jewish enough for you. There are more things that I would like to say but cant think of them now. I am still looking forward to seeing you all Friday and will still make pancakes!!! You will always be my little Jewish boitchick. Baptism cant change that!! I still remember you making the star of David when the boys were christened! Being Jewish is something I have always been proud of even if I dont follow it all the way like Jerry, whom I consider a bigot, albeit my best friend. This is a tough world we live in, with a lot of problems. I just think you went to far and this will not solve any of the problems you think it will. I dont think you can back out now that you have made all these commitments. In my heart you will always be Jewish!

Love always

your Jewish father!!!

mark, this is me, Mom talking. since I am coming out as being a nonbeliever the catholic church does not look with fondness on me, in fact if this were long ago i would be burned at the stake. even today, how about the mysterious disappearance of the famed atheist, O'Hare Aunt Ruth and Uncle Harold being religious feel that frank's being baptized is like a death. I disagree with them but feel that frank does not realize the precepts of the catholic church such as your are damned to hell if you are homosexual, invitro fertilizations or masturbation. Frank really feels that he will be accepted socially in their community if he becomes involved and wants to be closer to Patti and the kids by joining in their religion. I feel that Tim who teaches religion feels that this is a good thing. when frank sent him a copy of your letter, he wrote back that you are ill-informed this does not seem to be open minded. Frank has his date set up for his baptism for this Saturday, Pattis family will attend so I guess I am too late to prevent this from taking place I am remiss for not being closer to frank for then I would have known earlier what he was planning. Ruth got the phone numbers of rabbis in your town. They were not home. I dont want this to become a battle between religions.

Love Mom

Mom,

It's only a battle between religions if you make it one. Since, because of rationalists, we are past (at least for the time being and in our part of the world) the age of burning at the stake, I view it as a good topic for argument and discussion. For instance, I am interested in any facts that Tim could share with me that would cure the illness of my lack of information.

Atheists and Jews are no angels either. Many religious people were victims of genocide at the hands of atheists (some of them no doubt them former Jews) in the Soviet Union. Ask a Palestinian how he feels about being repressed in the Jewish state of Israel.

Let me try to follow your reasoning concerning Aunt Ruth.

Ruth's attitude is that Frank's baptism is like a death. You are trying to keep Frank as a Jew so that (in theory) he can also pass on the attitude that baptisms are like a death.

Frank as a Catholic will (in theory) have the attitude that anyone not baptized is a death.

Both attitudes are just as bad as the other and are the main reason I am skeptical of any religion. Remember what I said to Frank: "Over much of history [religions] stressed more negative ideas (such as "distrust anyone who believes something different")."

The way I see it, since we all face eternal death, what is important is how we spend our life. If Frank's choice makes him happier and does no harm to others, then it's a good thing. What is left to argue is whether Ruth's unhappiness due to Frank's "death" constitutes "harm". I would argue no. Ruth is choosing to be unhappy because of the attitudes her religion and upbringing gave her (distrust anyone who believes something different). Ruth may feel that her distrust is justified by a history of persecution. The Jews, however, are not the only people who have ever been persecuted. Ruth is just more aware of the particular problems of the Jews--again by her upbringing and the stress the Jewish culture puts on its own persecution. Every "people" has its stories of persecution. (American Indians, Australian aborigines, Christians to lions, Palestinians, Buddhists of China, Tutsis of Burundi, Albanians of Kosovo, etc, etc, etc.) I can look at the same data and proclaim the Jews as the least persecuted people in history. They have survived for over five thousand years and are currently thriving! In the same time, countless, COUNTLESS others have been obliterated and/or assimilated into other peoples. Apparently, stressing one's own persecution is a good survival technique.

One thing I have come to realize since moving to Lithuania is that a civilized society is based on trust. The sooner we change our attitudes from distrust to trust, the better off the individuals that make up the society will be.

This may have sounded anti-Semitic. Actually, I am anti-ethnic. Ethnicity is a phenomenon that I hope is on its way out. It is just another reason (along with religion) to encourage distrust. It has its benefits, such as a source of diversity in diets and fashions and lifestyles, but these benefits come at a price.

More and more people are becoming aware of others' lifestyles as a result of the recent technologies that have given us global communication. It is my hope that with this technology, more will realize that we are all pretty much the same. The diets, fashions and lifestyles that survive global scrutiny will do so because of their own inherent qualities. Diversity will survive, but on a global scale.

Rational thinking encourages the objective search for truth. It has made possible the technology mentioned above and many improvements in the quality of life. I am optimistic that it will solve the current problems of over-population and the resulting pollution before these problems overtake us and cause the breakdown of civilization.

Mark

Thanks for being a honest, wise and decent Big Brother. And now, you're even showing me up with your superior writing skills!

Love ya,

Frank

Hi Frank,

We heard that you are embarking on a new religious experience. We spoke to your parents and they have expressed some concerns. We all think that it might be a good idea if you could just pause and reflect and perhaps talk with a local Rabbi. There are two congregations in your town, one conservative and the other reform.

Here are some of the things that we do know about the relation between Judaism and Christianity. They are mutually exclusive so you are either one or the other but not both. Jewish tradition holds that a Jew who becomes a Christian is regarded as being dead and Kaddish is said for him and the family sits shiva according to the custom for a death in the family. If someone claims that Christianity is an extension of Judaism then he is just lying. There are two main reasons why these two faiths are mutually exclusive. First there is the theology itself. Judaism has only one god and that one god has no divine son. The ten commandments are very clear on that subject. The very core of Judaism is based on that defining concept. Christianity is just the contrary claiming that the only path to god is through a divine son of god who just happened to be Jewish. That created the second problem which we all know as antisemitism. Unfortunately it is deeply rooted in the notion that since the Christian god # 2 came to the Jews and was rejected by the Jews then either the Jews are wrong or Christianity is wrong. The historic Christian response has been antisemitism and this has taken on some very violent and tragic forms even in our lifetime.

Unfortunately you seem to be caught up in the middle of this contradiction.

We hope that you will take the time to reflect before you make a hasty decision and try to at least learn a little more by consulting a rabbi. There are many issues and many consequences that you may not even be aware of at this time. You may even discover that you will never be completely accepted among Christians while you are rejected by Jews so that you may find yourself in a neverland of doubt and uncertainty.

Aunt Ruth and Uncle Harold

Frank,

Wow, this is a truly misinformed response. Your aunt and uncle are obviously ignorant of the concept of the Trinity.

As to their second conclusion on anti-Semitism, there is some truth there, yet they formulate their argument as if anti-Semitism were a doctrine of the church, which is not the case. Witness Pope John Paul II's recent Jubilee year address where he acknowledged and asked for forgiveness of the past sins of members of the church. Note: not of the church itself: the body of Christ. The church is Holy, because the Trium God is Holy. Holiness: this is what the members of the church strive for.

Aunt Ruth and Uncle Harold should be ashamed of themselves for their final argument: condemning you to a spiritual limbo.

I, for one accept you as you are: a human pilgrim on the journey to better know God, in order that you may better love God. This can not be the basis for a fellow Jew or a soon-to-be fellow Christian of rejecting you. It certainly is anti-Christian, a religion based on the two great commandments: Love God, Love Neighbor. (Neither, by the way, were new ideas when Jesus taught them after being cornered with the trick question: What is the greatest commandment (of the Decalogue)? Jesus borrowed both commandments from the Torah.)

Tim

Frank,

Trinity Schminity. The way I see it you have a choice to wear one of the following around your neck. This:

or this:

Your Decent? Big Brother

kewl... where do i get one of those..!

This experience has brought our family closer together. I'm very glad for that!