William Tychonievich
wrote:
On your "Cult of Christ" page (http://mwillett.org/atheism/Christ-Cult.htm),
you mention John Smith as the founder of the Mormon religion. Actually,
his name was Joseph Smith.
Wm Jas |
 |
Thanks. I knew that. I can't think why I made that mistake...
http://www.johnsmiths.co.uk/
--
Martin Willett |
Are u a qualified Historian? |
Do you have to have a licence? I have a degree, will that do?
You are indeed knowledgable and well read.... But smart? I don’t
know how accurate that is. Man, I wish I had your wealth of knowledge.
Have a little bit of fun for a moment, answer this question.
If you could be any of the more popular comic book/super powered
characters, who would you pick?
matt |
God.
I cut down a tree today just because I could! It screamed!
michael.a.hladik@lmco.com |
If that was fun why not go and buy a pig?
Na I like Pig's, I want a pot belly pig. Tree's
tend to make messes all
over so the best thing to do is cut them down and throw them away. I
will have to send you a t-shirt that I designed for tree huggers. |
Your illiteracy shines through along with your arrogance and lack of
human decency.
You're American aren't you?
You got that right!!!! |
 |
Daniel Barulich wrote:
Why blame the Isle
of Man for having pro-business standards? Shouldnt you
be placing the blame with the individuals and corporations
who decide to re-located and not with the state itself. Are
you against the concept of individual freedom? |
I spent my honeymoon there and got sunburn.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
Sharon Emrick wrote:
I do not wish to impair your right to believe what you choose
to believe but I respond on the chance you really are seeking
the truth. But really I have never yet found one honest atheist.
All I ever have found is individuals that are really angry that
God?Jesus did not operate as some magic wand to fulfill their
desire and prayers.
Should you really be desiring the truth regarding God and Jesus
please regard that Jesus is not dead. I personally know he lived
because I met him in 1976. I am neither deranged nor On drugs.
I am the daughter of a rocket scientist so I assume you can imagine
I was raised on evidence and yet i require no evidence that either
of my parents exist and have never felt need to examine their
birth certificates because they knew them. Now due to the fact
that Jesus /God are not finite and human their thinking tends
to be a bit different so I have had days I told him I didn't
know him. But rather I hve known him more than most people I
have known with the noticeable exemption of a man Moses Vegh
who first introduced me to the concept of a truly personal two
way relationship. He was matter a factly stating what Jesus had
said that morning and I nearly laughed out loud (re: my scientific
upbringing)thinking of Bill cosby and his routine on Noah when
I looked at him and suddenly knew that if any person had ever
heard God he had and I started listening. I was baptised and
instantly lost all the crippling of my legs from a car accident
along with a metabolic problem. My doctor told me he never wanted
to see me again when he saw it.Several months after that I survived
a fire in my bedroom that burned over and under me without burning
me. I have seen new skin grow in minutes erradicating a half
inch deep wound. I have seen scoliosis confirmed by x-ray and
then totally unfindable even by repeated x-ray. I have seen a
child drowned and unrevivable when her body floated up get up
and run around when Jesus was prayed.
Now the problem for the logical is these things don't always
happen but we are not dealing with an inanimate force but a living
being who can and does do as he choose and not being finite doesn't
see things as you do. He makes choices based on future results
you don't know and for purposes you are not aware of. Usually
he is not in the habit of explaining himself anymore than you
do to the ant on your sidewalk.
Now none of this is proof to you and possibly makes you doubt
my sanity but on the chance you are interested he is available
to know, just not to fit in your boxes and probably not to fully
understand. Actually how many human beings do you fully understand???
Now as relationships go it is a relationship where you can rely
on never being lied to but where you aren't going to know everything
and you are definately not going to be in control. Generally
that has been my experience that is the main problem for most
atheists but then every once in a while there could be someone
who really would be willing to know the God who is and all that
you need to do is start by addressing him ,"If you are really
out there I really would like to know you. and if you are I'm
sorry i haven't believed in you. Please show me the truth." Then
you will have your own set of evidence and all these arguments
will be irrelevant.
Anyway, not looking for response. My questions are not for you
to answer me but yourself what are your real motivations. If
you so choose you may answer especially if you enter this adventure.
I always enjoys these stories but if you are trying to convince
mne to become an atheist save us both time. All arguments of
nonexistance are irrelevant to those who have met someone and
had a relationship for some time(in my case 31 years)and I have
no concern regarding the opinions of others and if there was
a death penalty for saying it I would gladly still say it rather
than lose this relationship. May God bless you with the courage
to see things that even when you see them are hard to believe. |
People throughout history have had personal relationships with their
own gods inside their heads. Do not for one moment imagine that the priests
of Baal, Jupiter, Odin, Zeus, Kali or Thoth were any more deliberate
knowing liars than Christian priests and pastors. Sincerity is no guarantee
of verity.
If you really have Jesus' voice living in your head you can prove it
to me conclusively by asking him to teach you Aramaic, real Aramaic,
the language he must have spoken when he was alive.
Join me on a live webcam event in which you can demonstrate to the world
the accuracy of your claims to be in direct contact with Jesus. I will
telephone you and ask you some questions to which Jesus will be able
to answer easily based on his experiences of life as a carpenter and
wandering preacher. Are you up for it?
If you really are sincere in your beliefs, in your claims of contact
with Jesus and in your desire to show the world the reality of Jesus
you should leap at this opportunity. I will do what I can to ensure there
are plenty of atheists watching and listening.
My own experience of being an atheist is that atheists do not believe
in gods and therefore do not pray to Jesus or any other deity or spirit.
The act of asking Jesus into your heart is simply a form of self-hypnosis.
Everybody knows what is supposed to happen when Jesus comes into your
life and this is what happens. Nobody becomes capable of speaking Aramaic,
or any other language they do not know. If you really are in contact
with a man who lived two thousand years ago, who spoke Aramaic and made
his living by carpentry and begging you will be able to demonstrate this
to us clearly. If you are making it all up you will wriggle out of the
challenge and call me a fool or impious or make some other meaningless
taunt for making such a suggestion.
I have absolutely no intention of trying to hypnotize myself into becoming
a Christian because I appreciate the freedom to think for myself and
make up my own mind. I do not want to have my decisions made for me by
my own subconscious prejudices telling me how to play the part of a Christian.
Why would I want to become a Christian? I know plenty of them. They don't
impress me very much.
Evidence first then belief. That is the scientific way. If it was good
enough for the disciples why is it not appropriate for me? If Jesus doesn't
go in for proof and values unquestioning gullible faith why did he offer
so much proof to his disciples? They didn't have to take anything on
faith, the power of Jesus was demonstrated to them directly, they didn't
have to take anybody's word for it, they saw miracles performed in front
of them. Of course a cynic would say that miracles are much easier to
arrange thirty years or more later when the time comes to have something
in writing.
The Christian approach of denying doubt first is anathema to Enlightenment
thinking.
Faith is not a virtue, it is a weakness of mind, a crippling of the
intellect. Nothing that is worth believing in requires that people rule
out the possibility of questioning. Science and liberalism are not afraid
to not only allow but positively welcome doubt, checking, verification
and most importantly of all falsification.
Have you tried asking other gods into your heart (kidney, spleen, brain,
soul, mind or whatever)? Why not? Why should you assume the god of the
people who last beat up your ancestors has to be the only legitimate
god?
If there is only one true god how can Muslims who are smarter than you
pray five times per day and be prepared to kill and die for the wrong
one true god? By that I mean the ones that simply are smarter than you,
there's more than a billion of them, not that all of them are smarter
than you!
Why don't Buddhists and Hindus sat meditating about the truth of the
universe suddenly start hearing the voice of Jesus? What else have they
got to listen out for?
Why don't Baptists see visions of the Virgin Mary?
Why don't Catholic priests or New Age goddess worshipers start speaking
in tongues?
When you are hypnotizing yourself to believe in Jesus why don't you
regress to a past life, recall being anally probed in a flying saucer
or remember that your father sexually abused you for ten years? The answer
is simple, people behave under any form of hypnosis the way they are
expected to behave. If you ask a Muslim goat herder from Burkina Faso
to let Jesus into his life he wouldn't be able to do a very good job
of it because he has no idea how to play the role. Somebody from Alabama
would have a much better chance of doing it convincingly. Children have
a natural affinity for learning languages, but nobody encourages children
to speak in tongues because they won't have picked up enough clues how
to do it right. Of course nobody spoke in tongues for eighteen centuries
then the craze spread in much the same way as crazes for kite flying
or stilt walking.
How do you explain the fact (I presume you do regard it as a fact) that
Jesus preached only to Jews, only had Jews as disciples (and only men
too come to that) and made no efforts at all to preach to any gentiles?
Why only care about gentiles when he's dead?
If your answers to any of these questions involve Jesus being a slippery
character or smarter than any human being could ever hope to understand
how can you know that this spirit is Jesus and not, say, Satan? Would
Satan be incapable of making you feel good inside? Why? And how do you
know? Once somebody has postulated a slippery liar lording it up over
the Earth trying to deceive people for his own murky not-to-be-probed
reasons how can anybody ever feel confident of anything, internal or
external?
No doubt when you think about Jesus you get a feeling inside that tells
you that you are right. How does this feeling compare to that which gamblers
have before they lay a large bet they know will win and doesn't? What
evidence have you got that human beings are capable of directly feeling
the truth of ideas through concentrating on sensations within their internal
organs?
Doesn't the existence of a profitable gambling industry give the lie
to the idea that the human body is equipped with a functioning direct
truth evaluator?
Can you explain why God and Jesus value credulity so highly? Why is
believing in a god who seems almost perversely shy so important? Why
is belief more important than good behaviour?
What is eternal life for? Isn't it meaningless without an after-eternal
life to aim for? But that would be silly, wouldn't it?
Who is God jealous of? And why?
Did Jesus die for your sins or so that you would believe in him?
What does he get out of being believed in? Go on, ask him. This is the
biggie: what do you give the being who made everything and why would
he want it?
Why has the creator of the universe got a character that resembles that
of an evolved ape? OK, it seems he's unknowable only when the impious
ask to know him but fully knowable when the faithful ask things of him.
Why?
If Jesus is God and his "death" was a sacrifice to atone for
sin who was he sacrificed to?
How can going through the motions of "killing" an immortal
achieve anything? It's ridiculous mythological nonsense. Immortals can't
die, it's in the job description.
If Jesus died for the sins of humanity committed and yet to be committed,
paying off our debts, what happens if we stop sinning? Do we then go
into credit?
Has he ever told you something you didn't already know? Has he ever
told you why Christians are a minority?
Why not ask him for directions for how to demonstrate or disprove the
existence of the Higgs Boson?
What has God got against homosexuality? Why is he now OK about eating
shrimp? Do sabbath breakers still deserve to be put to death? What was
the big thing about foreskins about? Why does an unchanging Alpha and
Omega yet somehow still manage to change?
Why not ask him for an explanation for why he let so many good Christians
die in the fruitless search for the North West Passage? How hard would
it have been to tell them that it was a waste of time looking?
If Jesus can appear as a vision so artists can paint him why couldn't
he send a vision of the Earth seen from space, or of the dark side of
the Moon, to an artist with the skill to paint it? Wouldn't a Leonardo
da Vinci of the dark side of the Moon that subsequently matches up almost
precisely (allowing for more recent cratering) be the sort of evidence
that would turn the whole world into believers? Far better than some
lame effort at nude photography.
Why does the explanation you have been forming have the ring of the
explanations offered for why glove puppets don't tap dance or speak when
their masters are asleep?
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org
www.drdino.com
dont stop untill you find out |
Have you deliberately decided to ignore my clear instructions or are
you too busy to read them?
I am well aware of the clown known as Dr Dino, his message, his methods
and his scientific credibility.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
no i just randomly came accross your website, i dont know how
i got there or why i wrote you. but just wanted to tell you that
Jesus loves you and wants to enter your heart if only you will
open the door and let him in. my life was change dramatically 180degrees
once i got to know him better. your life will never be the same
again. |
I have had my fill of comedy thanks.
does it hurt to check it out? |
This suggestion has been made before, many times.
Is it stupidity, arrogance, colossal insensitivity or simple thoughtlessness
that causes you to think you can make me change my mind with such a flaccid
effort?
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
I just thought that if it was so random, maybe there was a reason
why I did it? I think God is trying to talk to you though other
people including me. |
I regard that as blasphemous. If there is a god I'd hope he could do
better than use you.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
well ok? but tell me this what do you belive in? were will you
go after you die? were did you come from? |
Read the site. That's what it is for.
I find it interesting that you dont seem to want to be held
accountable for the work that you didn't write, but are publishing
on your website. Why wont you stand behind the gavel that you are
slamming Christians with by answering to the material that you
choose to publish?
Honestly, I could be wrong, but it just seems like its an admission
to the weakness of the arguments posited.
Maybe you should consider simply quoting the segments of the
original authors work that you can, or are willing to defend,
and leave the rest out.
Of coarse, if you are a devoted naturalist, then you probably
don't believe in any kind of ultimate arbitration of social conduct.
In that case, you are not likely to be concerned about being
fair to the individuals (Christians) that you are slamming. You
simply compile a force of agrument, slam people with it, and
then only answer to a portion of it.
Well, thats ok. I thought you would be like most intelligent
athiests i have known, in that they were ardently devoted to
an open forum for discussion but i guess not.
Note to Christians: The above review was written
By Kush K. He read the book. I have no intention of debating
this book or reading it so stop sending me emails about it. OK? |
Why should I debate as if I wrote it a review of a book I have no intention
of reading?
The vast majority of the material on my site is written by me, I will
discuss that.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
ok. fair enough i guess.
i was just reading the news about how they finally discovered a planet
that they think may be able to support life. Reading the article made
me realize how ridiculous it would be to state conclusively that by no
stretch of the imagination or science, could there ever be life anywhere
else in the universe, except for on earth.
This caused me to reminisce about the "no absolute negative" argument
made by many theists.
I'm sure that you already know what i'm talking about, but for the sake
of the slight possibility that you might not know what i'm referring
to, it is usually stated somewhat like this:
The basic laws of logic inhibit the possibility of an absolute negative.
The classic case of this kind of logically impossible claim is typified
in the position of the Athiest. That in the wide expanse of factors in
the universe, and in all of the possible configurations of cosmogenisis
- that there is conclusively and absolutely no possibility for the existence
of a Creator or Ultimate Being (God). Here an absolute negative is posited
by a finite being - and the laws of Logic refute its mathematical validity.
" It is affirming the non-existence of God. It affirms a negative. Anyone
with an introductory course in philosophy recognizes that it is a logical contradiction.
It would be like me saying to you, "There is no such thing as a white stone
with black dots anywhere in all of the galaxies of this universe." The only
way I can affirm that is if I have unlimited knowledge of this universe.
So to affirm an absolute negative is self-defeating, because what you
are saying is, "I have infinite knowledge in order to say to you,
'There is nobody within finite knowledge.'" Atheism, as a system,
is self-defeating. "
You probably want me to start a new thread on your forum or read an article
before you are willing to discuss it via e-mail right? If so, are there
any articles on your website that you could direct me to concerning your
response to this argument? |
http://mwillett.org/atheism/strength.htm
http://mwillett.org/atheism/atheist-God.htm
http://mwillett.org/atheism/agnostic.htm
thanks, i'll have to roll these around in my mind when i have
time.
Actually I appreciate the Strong/Weak atheist article, not because it
gives ascent to Theism or anything, but because of the honesty of the
statement. Philosophy isn't a sport, and only in competitive sports do
we honor the pigheaded and "strong" - and even that is kind
of lame.
I guess I also appreciate it because, even though I am a Christian, I
have similar views which correspond to Biblical philosophy. Not that
i have a partial faith in God, or a partial devotion to the fundamental
tennants of Christianity, but that i have to admit that it is possible
that there may be weak areas in my own philisophical constructs and in
my own ability to intellectually discern and assemble truth. Fortunately
my belief in God does not rest solely upon one single argument but on
the collaborative mass of evidence as a whole which outweighs the opposition.
Also, Intellectual arguments are important, but only supplemental ( albeit
integral ) to the pre-emminent staple of personal spiritual revelation.
If there is a God and if He is "fair", then He is just as accesable
to the mentally handicapped as he is to the intellectual Genius. But
thats not to say that intellectual reason and rationality is not critical
for Christendom as a Whole - it is and i dont expect you to dialoge with
us on the level of our individual experiences in the Spirit.
At the same time, i do not believe that any of the pillars which hold
up the essential tennents of Christianity ( including the existance and
supremacy of God) are weak or fallible.
for what its worth, Aaron. |
Hi Martin,
I just came across your web site. You mention on your site that
there are precisely zero famously atheist people who are now
famously Christian. I am curious about the matter myself. If
I understand the question correctly they had to be specifically
an atheist (not an agnostic, Buddhist, Taoist, pantheist, monist,
etc.) and already famous before conversion. Correct? What are
some names of people that have been submitted to you that you
have rejected? One challenge is finding people who were specifically
an atheist. Alice Cooper was famous for his rejection of Christianity
for many years only to later become one. But I haven't seen anything
that specifically states he was an atheist, so I don't know if
he meets the established criteria or not.
That seems like a key to this challenge with perhaps 1-2% of
Western society identify themselves as strictly an atheist. Then
they have to be famous. Then they have to convert to Christianity
and still be alive. There are many famous "prodigals" but
fitting to this criteria is a bit more challenging. Has anyone
suggested Anne Rice the author? She is listed as an atheist turned
Christian on wikipedia, that bastion of (cough) scholarly online
reference material . Does she fit the criteria? Thanks for your
time.
Sincerely,
J.R. |
The criteria for fame is that I have heard of them. Anne Rice barely
qualifies there. The criteria for being a famous atheist is that people
strongly identify that person with atheism. I certainly have never been
aware that the Vampire Chronicles were written by a famous atheist.
I didn't regard Alice Cooper or Ozzy Osbourne seriously as atheists
for their manipulations of Christian imagery, it was as clear as day
that they were using religious imagery to further their careers via cheap
shock tactics not out of any sincerely held philosophy. If I hear that
Lemmy went to Mass last week I won't feel betrayed either.
Merely labelling yourself as an atheist isn't really enough to qualify
as famously atheist rather than just a person who is famous and also
known to be an atheist. People have to go on record about their atheism
and make a case for it. C S Lewis therefore counts under this clause,
but when he was on record as being an atheist he wasn't famous or influential
in any way. His fame came after his conversion.
Anybody who has been a Catholic until the age of 18 is clearly a suspect
for being a reactive convert. You really can never stop being a Catholic,
even if you do become an atheist, especially if you were an Irish Catholic
taught by nuns! In a civilized world sending a child to be taught by
nuns would be considered conspiracy to abuse a child and punished accordingly.
Teaching a child about about Hell is far more evil and damaging than
getting them to touch your todger.
The Anne Rice story is not uplifting, it is deeply sad.
Search Google for "Anne Rice atheist writings" and you don't
find any, just reviews of her Christian novel. That tells the tale. Instead
replace Anne Rice with Philip Pullman and you find a genuine famous atheist
writer.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
A combination of compelling research, personal interest, and
a good deal of excitement generated by the idea, has inspired me
to seek to publish an anthology that will offer the personal accounts
of gays and lesbians from around the world and from a variety of
religious backgrounds.
I welcome and encourage you to visit the project's blog where you can
post ideas, comments, criticism, etc.: http://gaysoffaith.blogspot.com/.
Please, please, please pass this link along to anyone and everyone you
know that may be interested in the project. So far, a lot of interest,
both financial and content-based has been generated, but I'm looking
to this blog and your responses as a way to truly get the ball rolling.
Thank you!
Michael |
Faith is the greatest curse humanity has ever inflicted on itself.
And just because homosexuality is not illegal why should people have
to pretend they're perfectly cool with it? I am not cool about bagpipes,
violins, miniature poodles or morris dancing either. Can't we have some
grey area between criminal oppression and compulsory public celebration?
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
Hey there Martin,
Following the link to the Lottery
page from Smitecam V, I wanted to point out one thing that
you’re sort of wrong about when it comes to the lottery.
Not about the utter folly of thinking one might dream of the
winning numbers – with that, you’re right on – but
rather in the calculation of never matching more than three
balls in playing for fifty years.
I just used your numbers – 1 in 1033 odds of getting four
balls matching. If you calculate the odds of never getting at
least four balls over fifty years of playing, it comes to only
about 9 percent chance. Okay, so that’s not entirely unremarkable
to play every week for 50 years and never win (at least 4 matching),
but it would at least be improbable.
Since you’re buying a lottery ticket this month before
Smitecam V, I hope for your sakes that you’re wrong about
the no gods thing, and you’ll be luckily rewarded with
a large sum of cash. Unfortunately, I strongly suspect you’re
right.
Yours,
Ruquay K Calloway |
It would be not that remarkable I think is what I wrote, which
I stand by. The English language does not represent chances precisely,
that is why we developed percentages and odds. I think not that remarkable would
work down to about 2%.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
Mr Willett-
Throughout many of your essays and commentaries, you adamantly
state that you have much disdain for liars and such. You seem
to have a deep hunger for the "truth" in the various
issues on your website, and you employ "logic" and "reason" to
come to what you see as some kind of "truth." Your
arguments - which are confounding to many who are not staunch
ideologues or well-versed on the particualr subject matter -
may seem "concrete" to many. Using basic principles
from the era of "modernity" to establish and declare
what is "true and logical" make a strong case for your
athiestic and secular-humanistic views. However, in this era
of "post modernism", how do you explain and reconcile
your views to a generation who question the existence of "absoluteness" in
truth? How do you refute the adage of "Your perception is
your reality"?
Semper Fidelis!
Joel Bowling
Garner NC |
Simple, post-modernists are deluded wankers. You can't get more modern
than modern. It stands to reason. Post-modernism doesn't.
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
um hi
im not too cool with givingf my name out so il just say im "Riot"
i have been looking at the website and its AWESOME
i have been looking for something like this for a long time
i hope you can answer 2 questions:
1. You say children cannot be members - how old would you consider
an adult to be? i am a uk citizen and i think we have different
rules on adult age
2. bit embarresed but......where do i sign up? :P i cant see
a "join" button or anything
thanks very much - keep up the good work :) |
How dare you assume I'm a foreigner?
http://mwillett.org/who1.htm
There is no formal age limit, but we don't slow down, pull our punches
or make allowances. It is up to you to decide whether you are up to it.
I would be surprised if many people under the age of 13 could keep up.
The average IQ of a forum member is also well above the average for the
rest of humanity so lots of adults will never be able to thrive with
us either.
If you are under the age of 16 I think it would be sensible for you
to check with a "responsible adult" or failing that a parent
to see if they approve of you going on a site which is designed for adult
conversation. I can guarantee you will be involved in conversations with
strange people, you will come across people who are sexually
attracted to children, you will meet people who regularly take
drugs but there is very little chance that anybody will attempt to meet
up with you, it isn't that sort of a site. So on the whole it's probably
less dangerous than sending you out to buy some milk at Tesco Express.
Just go to http://mwillett.org/Debate/ and click on "Register"
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
|